SVG

Int’l Criminal Court would’ve charged Brits for Garifuna genocide – PM

Prime Minister Dr. Ralph Gonsalves.

KINGSTOWN, St. Vincent – The British would have been hauled before the International Criminal Court if the tribunal existed in the 1790s when the colonisers massacred the Garifunas, this country’s indigenous people.

“After the death of Chatoyer and the defeat of the Garifunas and the deportation of persons, and let us not mince words, genocide by the British, [the Garifunas were given 239 acres of land]. Let us not mince words. If you had the International Criminal Court then, those fellows would have been dragged before the International Criminal Court,” Prime Minister Dr. Ralph Gonsalves said Wednesday.

He was delivering the feature address at the annual Wreath-Laying Ceremony at The Obelisk in Dorsetshire Hill, in commemoration of this country’s National Hero, Joseph Chatoyer, who is believed to have died there in 1795.

“They (the British) killed men, women, and children indiscriminately. And there are many Garifuna and Callinago, rather than being killed by the British, jumped off from cliffs and went to their watery grave. Even to the last, that was their resistance,” he said as he recounted the history of the Garifuna people here.

Gonsalves noted that in 1763, the Garifuna owned all of St. Vincent, except for a few French settlements on the western coast. By 1800, five years after Chatoyer — paramount chief of the Garifuna –was killed, all they had was 239 acres of land.

“You understand why Garifuna people remain in that part of the country, historically among the poorest?” he said in reference to north-eastern St. Vincent, where the descendants of the Garifuna live. “And some of the same people who wanted to keep the British will blame others in respect of the poverty up there,” he said.

He was referring to the proposed revised constitution of 2009, which, among its amendments, included removing the British Monarch as this country’s head of state.

The opposition New Democratic Party headed a campaign that successfully encouraged citizens to vote against the revised constitution and, in the process, keeping the British Monarch.

Gonsalves said that the British arrived in 1763, and, except for 1779 to 1783 when the French ruled the country, remained as the colonial power for 216 years until independence in 1979. They only built two secondary schools during that time, he observed.

He said that when the British took suzerainty of the country, they immediately declared all the land as belonging to the Crown. “Can you imagine you own the whole place and people come all the way from England say it belongs to them and don’t expect a fight? … And when I fight for it, you call me ‘war-like,’ when my name, ‘Callinago,’ meant peaceful,” he said.

“They took all the lands and you tell me I must not get reparations?” Gonsalves further stated.

He said that the defeat of Chatoyer opened the way for the importation of African slaves and the cultivation of sugar here.

In 1766, 35 tonnes of the commodity was produced here but that figure had increased to 1,770 tonnes by 1770. Throughout the following decade, the production hovered about 3,000 tonnes annually, and rose after the defeat of the Garifuna.

Gonsalves noted that when Chatoyer was killed, the British met 1,300 French inhabitants and 2,700 African slaves here. By 1805, at the height of sugar cultivation, there were 16,500 slaves and 18,794 by the time slavery was abolished. He further noted that when the slaves were freed, their owners were compensated.

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Discussion

36 thoughts on “Int’l Criminal Court would’ve charged Brits for Garifuna genocide – PM

  1. Different times, when people were not as civilised, such actions through the centuries were accepted as the norm.

    The French Duke William from Brittany attacked England, slaughtered thousands and became know as William the Conqueror. Then installed himself as the King of England, King William.
    Britain had been attacked and massacred many times prior to that by numerous marauding nations.

    Millions massacred in Eastern Europe by marauding Turks.

    The Spanish were conquered by the Moors from North Africa, they massacred many thousands of Spanish.

    The Portuguese were massacred by the Spanish.

    The Portuguese were famous for their attacks on West Africa, killing and capturing African people and making slaves of them, many villages were massacred.
    The Portuguese settled what is now Brazil and slaughtered the indigenous Indians, hundreds of thousands of them over the centuries. Then when there were only a handful of natives left the Portuguese shipped in hundreds of thousands of African slaves and worked them to death. The Portuguese in Brazil were the last to give up slavery in the Americas and Caribbean, and only stopped because Britain attacked them and forced them to stop.

    The Spanish massacred close to a million native Indians in Cuba, enslaving and working to death others. As a sport chopping off the feet of some natives and forcing them to walk on the raw stumps. Then when all the natives were dead, they brought in shiploads of African slaves and made them work until they dropped dead.

    All that which happened at the hands of the Spanish and Portuguese was set in motion by the sea captain Antonio Gonsalves a member of the Gonsalves family of Madeira Portugal. He captured 8 African men from a beach in South West Africa. Prince Henry of Portugal gave those unfortunate black men to the Catholic Pope, who was so pleased with his gift that he carved the World as it was then known into two sections, half to the Portuguese and half to the Spanish.
    The Atlantic slave trade was set in motion by Antonio Gonsalves.

    Gonsalves my little fat Marxist scum bag, your whole strategy is to fool the Vincy people to such a degree that they will turn against the British Queen. As early as 1978 public records show that you proposed getting rid of Queen Elizabeth. You really are a nasty bitter little man. I just hope that people can see through you for what you are, a political trickster.

    Of course I am not saying that we should not deselect the Queen as our head of state, what I am saying is that we do not want someone such as you to become our head of state under a dictatorship, that’s what most people believe to be your ultimate aim.

    If you want to blame any one, go and blame your relatives in Portugal, go and ask the Gonsalves family to apologise to the World.

    Now you have the audacity to further enslave the nation without our permission by taking us into ALBA, which consists of a collection Marxist lunatics and want to be dictators.

    If you want to tell the people about Chief Chatoyer, tell them everything about him, even the bits that you begged our then friend Dr. Kirby, to cut from his book before it was published. I have the original text.

    Your whole life has been to fool people, to tell lies and fool people, all to further your Marxist ambitions.

    Just quit winding the Vincentions up to satisfy your own Marxist ambitions.

    Posted by Peter | March 15, 2012, 12:39
  2. Should Gonsolves be charged for the wicked Victimization of Vincentians over the past 11 years. Na because Gonsolves nah directly order the killing ah NDP people, he think, in principle, he much different that the Brits?

    Posted by wehha | March 16, 2012, 10:28
  3. Peter, and what does all that you have stated has to do with the ARTICLE?

    I have already out you on your purpose for bringing up Antonio Gonsalves and here you are confirming just that.

    Again, what does Antonio Gonsalves has to do with the Prime Minister of St. Vincent and the Grenadines, Dr. Ralph Gonsalves?

    That said; could there be a more MURDEROUS FAMILY in the HISTORY of the SLAVE TRADE than that of the HOUSE of WINDSOR?

    Here we had an OPPORTUNITY to get rid of the LAST VESTIGE of COLONIALISM in SVG, by GETTING RID of ELIZABETH WINDSOR, the QUEEN of ENGLAND, as HEAD of STATE of an AFRICAN DESCENT DOMINATED NATION, but persons LIKE U and others SUPPORTED a NO VOTE that KEPT her in that position. Yet, you have the NERVE to be TALKING about whatever GARBAGE that you are trying to CONVEY in your post.

    You are a COLONIAL BOY, just like Eustace.

    I have NEVER SEEN EUSTACE SMILED so BROADLY and PROUDLY than when the Earl and Countess of Wessex came to VISIT SVG. It made me want to PUKE.

    That said; you keep mentioning dictatorship, but you cannot cite anything in the proposed new constitution to support your FANTASY claim…nothing surprising there.

    I guess you were one of the NDP operatives who were LYING to the VULNERABLE in the SOCIETY by telling them that if they voted YES for the then new proposed constitution, Ralph would have taken one of their properties if they had two.

    It is just PATHETIC and SAD the LIES and the SCAREMONGERING tactics that the NDP, under the MINDBENDING FIRM from BRITIAN, SCL, used against Vincentians of African descent during the REFERENDUM exercise.

    HISTORY will not be KIND to Eustace and the NDP for what they did to VINCENTIANS during a TIME they should have been pushing to get rid of the last vestige of colonialism in this SOVEREIGN NATION called St. Vincent and the Grenadines.

    SEE U AROUND, BUB.

    Posted by VINCY POWA (@VINCYPOWA) | March 16, 2012, 12:28
  4. VINCT POWA….. EUSTACE HATER?

    Posted by wehha | March 16, 2012, 15:08
  5. There we go again Mr Scardykins, BUBbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb

    Did you not follow what the learned professor Macintosh said about the Gonsalves constitution, it wasn’t written by the people it was politicians who wrote it. Totally unacceptable thank god we all saw through it.

    There was all sorts of crap in that document including how people were compensated by the government when acquiring peoples lands.

    Without that the government have taken land from people for the Aygyle airport and still haven’t paid them up to this very day.

    I was not influenced by anyone, I listened to the arguments and then read it myself and came to a conclusion not to accept such a document.

    I previously wrote “Of course I am not saying that we should not deselect the Queen as our head of state, what I am saying is that we do not want someone such as you [Gonsalves] to become our head of state under a dictatorship, that’s what most people believe to be your ultimate aim”.

    Its a Gonsalves red herring put out that the people wanted to keep the Queen so the voted against the referendum. That is untrue, they voted against Gonsalves being our President and a dictator for many years to come, followed by his son.

    The referendum failed for a variety of reasons, among which was the exclusion of Marxist scum like yourself, yes you VINCYPOWA.

    Perhaps you would like to tell the people about the House of Windsor and their massacres, and their involvement in the slave trade. You must research if you want to get the Gonsalves award for best supporting liar.
    The House of Windsor never came into existence until 1917.

    Dunce hat, stand in corner, you very stupid boy.

    Posted by Peter | March 16, 2012, 19:03
  6. VINCYPOWA, get instructions from Gonsalves then answer this post.

    Is anyone aware that at the time of his death Joseph Chatoyer was a French citizen and had been appointed a General in the French Army. He spoke French fluently and his children were educated in Martinique. He also owned a number of African slaves that worked his plantation. He also sold captured runaway slaves from other islands, and traded or sold them to French farmers in Saint Vincent and also to the French from Martinique.

    Chatoyer had vast amounts of gold coinage and regularly visited other islands to buy goods. He was often seen wearing expensive French tailored suits and shoes.

    His brother Duvalle also kept and worked African slaves.

    This is all checkable from French Public Records.

    Gonsalves was aware of this when he made Chatoyer a National Hero, he was warned at the time by a politician and also a prominent Vincentian historian, not to do so. He chose to ignore these people, he was warned that this action could come back and bite him in the arse.

    The most important thing for Gonsalves was that Chatoyer fought the British, because Gonsalves hates the British.

    Won’t tell you any more, read the book to be published later this year from public records.

    I am very sorry to present this at this time to the Garifuna people, but I am sure it doesn’t come as a surprise to many of them, seeing as this information is readily available in written form, and has been for hundreds of years.

    All that said the treatment of the Garifuna was a tragic incident, with many different political and international actions playing out at the time.

    I WISH THE GARIFUNA WELL

    Posted by Peter | March 17, 2012, 12:20
  7. Those of you who claim to be modern Vincentian Garifuna, sorry but that is impossible. Read the book and find out why.

    Posted by Peter | March 17, 2012, 12:23
  8. WEHTA, no.

    Anything else I can HELP you with?

    Posted by vincypowa | March 17, 2012, 14:18
  9. Interested ! as a born Garifuna, with little knowledge of my history this just motivates me to return to the blessed land of SVG and research my people and see where that can take me.

    Posted by Camille | March 17, 2012, 17:53
  10. PETER, where on PLANET EARTH, in a DEMOCRATIC COUNTRY, is the CONSTITUTION WRITTEN by the PEOPLE?

    Peter, again, how was Dr. Gonsalves going to become “HEAD OF STATE,” the title currently bestowed upon the QUEEN of ENGLAND, under a DICTATORSHIP, if the then PROPOSED NEW CONSTITUTION had become the LAW of the LAND?

    If you CANNOT ANSWER these SIMPLE questions, then you need to stop spewing nonsense that you cannot support with any FACTUAL EVIDENCE.

    That said; when I mentioned the “HOUSE OF WINDSOR,” it was done for two reasons.

    1. The ROYAL FAMILY of BRITAIN, which the HEAD OF STATE of SVG, QUEEN ELIZABETH, reign over, was FRONT and CENTER RESPONSIBLE for some of the most MURDEROUS ATROCITIES endured by AFRICANS and people of AFRICAN DESCENT during SLAVERY TIMES.

    2. During BRITISH COLONIAL RULE in SVG, BLACKS ENDURED GREAT HARDSHIPS at a time when the HOUSE OF WINDSOR was the CONSTITUTIONAL MONARCHY of BRITAIN. QUEEN ELIZABETH II reigned for 26 of those years.

    Moreover, SVG has been an INDEPENDENT NATION for 30 years, back in 2009, yet we voted to RETAIN this WOMAN and her HEIRS to REMAIN HEAD of STATE of this BLESSED NATION in this the 21st CENTURY.

    Any VINCENTIAN who holds on to this BACKWARD PRACTICE in these TIMES is CLEARLY SUFFERING from a COLONIAL STATE of MIND.

    That was the context for my reference to the HOUSE OF WINDSOR.

    QUEEN ELIZABETH II is a MEMBER of the ROYAL FAMILY that RULED and REIGNED during the time of the ATLANTIC SLAVE TRADE of the ANCESTORS of VINCENTIANS of AFRICAN DESCENT. Moreover, the HOUSE OF WINDSOR, which she BELONGS to, was the ROYAL FAMILY that reign during COLONIAL TIMES in SVG.

    Yet, ARNHIM EUSTACE and the NDP told BLACK VINCENTIANS to VOTE NO in the REFERENDUM to MAINTAIN a FLAWED and OUTDATED CONSTITUTION given to us by the FORMER COLONIAL MASTER of SVG, the BRITISH, with the QUEEN as HEAD of STATE.

    The ANCESTORS were PROBABLY TURNING in their GRAVES when the YES VOTE was DEFEATED during the REFERENDUM EXERCISE.

    The COLONIAL BOY, Arnhim Eustace, and his COLONIAL PARTY, the NDP, want to KEEP our NATION in a BACKWARD STATE in this the 21st CENTURY.

    Posted by vincypowa | March 17, 2012, 18:26
  11. Peter, what you’re FINDING out now has been in the public domain for decades.

    That said; there is HIStory and there is HISTORY.

    Tell me when you have the FACTS on BOTH.

    By the way, did you know there were FREE BLACKS who had BLACK SLAVES in AMERICA?

    That said; did you know there were AFRICANS WORKING on BEHALF of the EUROPEANS in the ENSLAVEMENT of AFRICANS during the ATLANTIC SLAVE TRADE?

    Posted by vincypowa | March 17, 2012, 19:06
  12. I would sooner accept the word of my friend Professor Macintosh than your interpretation of who should be responsible for the content of a new constitution. I am sure you have heard the teaching that he gave, it has been repeated on several occasions over the last week or so. If not get yourself a printed copy of what he said. I cannot be bothered to go into this matter any further with you.

    Gonsalves spent between 4 and 6 million dollars of tax payers money trying to ram the constitution through. This I believe to be highly improper and indecent, to waste money at a time when the hospital had no drugs or dressings. But worse than that to try and hoist on us a document that contained serious flaws.

    Of course Eustace said vote no, for the same reason as thousands of others said no. Because the proposed constitution contained a small number of extremely unacceptable items among a large number of acceptable items, it made the whole thing unacceptable.

    You see its like the lies Gonsalves tells, a statement that contains a small amount of untruth makes the whole thing an unacceptable lie.

    As for all your crap about the British Crown I cannot be bothered to continue to put you right, its a lot of my time wasted.

    With regards to your comments about my post about Chatoya, I am not just finding out these things, I have known about them for 20 years, my good friend Dr Kirby brought them to my attention. My information comes from the French Public Records Office, from a writing by a colleague of Chatoya and persons there at the time. Not from British records that could give a different view. Also a lot of written stuff refers to the Garifuna matter at the UWI at Barbados, including how many slaves Chatoya kept.
    Remember Earl Kirby wrote a book which mentions Duvalle keeping and working his plantation with slaves.

    I will say no more, my two books will be published sometime soon, you will be able to buy one from my printers and publishers in Panama.

    Its a shame that Gonsalves has knowingly caused such damage to the Garifuna, by feeding the Vincentian people with another bunch of lies.

    Please VINCYPOWA stop supporting this dreadful man.

    Posted by Peter | March 18, 2012, 00:03
  13. PETER, you’re just SPEWING the USUAL FART.

    Whenever you do not have any ANSWERS for the REBUTTALS, you sidesteps them with the usual LAME EXCUSES.

    That said; PARAMOUNT CHIEF, JOSEPH CHATOYER, without a SHADOW of a DOUBT, was DESERVING of NATIONAL HERO STATUS. His brother, DUVALLE, should be one of the names NOMINATED for such an HONOR as well.

    That said, the BRITISH EMPIRE was the ENEMY of the GARIFUNA PEOPLE, so too was the BRITISH EMPIRE the ENEMY of the ANCESTORS of people of AFRICAN DESCENT and so-called YELLOW and RED CARIBS.

    SEE U around, BUB.

    Posted by vincypowa | March 18, 2012, 23:37
  14. VINCYPOWA, Its always very obvious that you are defeated when you use the word BUB.

    Let all your lies be judged by all those reading these postings.

    Lets just remember one thing the Garifuna people were not the original owners of Saint Vincent, they gradually overran the original aboriginal population. They took Carib lands and gradually pushed the Caribs up the windward coast. They almost wiped out the original Carib population. The African derived Garifuna stole Carib women and eventually murdered two French priests and their helpers, butchered them at the alter of their church. The French brought in 400 troops and tried to destroy the Garifunas. The fierce Garifuna had grown so strong that the French were unsuccessful.

    In 1719: Major Pauline and French Forces land in St. Vincent to assist the Red Caribs. The French decided to reduce the population of the Black Caribs. Led by Major Paulian 400 volunteers from Martinique seek the Black Caribs for battle. The ‘Black Caribs’ (the descendants of African slaves and African slaves with a mixture of Carib Indian) ambush and defeat a French force of 400. Major Paulian and many of his followers were killed in skirmishes and ambushes.

    It was originally the Caribs that invited in French settlers, in doing so they hoped that the French would afford them some protection from the Garifuna.

    When the British shipped the Garifuna out they left the Caribs, but unfortunately there were only about 200 Caribs left. Much of the reduced number of Caribs from several thousand to 200 can be attributed to the Garifuna, not to the French or British. Of course I am not stating that all the missing Caribs were destroyed, it is recorded that many just got in their canoes and went to Venezuela and Trinidad. They quite simply just had, had enough.

    Remember in my first post I said “Different times, when people were not as civilised, such actions through the centuries were accepted as the norm”.

    If you ever get to read the book that will be published this year, you will be able to read about the Gonsalves family of Madeira, the sea captain Antonio Gonsalves, the Atlantic slave trade, everything about Saint Vincent from the beginning of time to 1899. About the Spanish, French, British and more importantly about the Caribs and the Garifuna. There are two more volumes that will deal with the period from 1900 to 2012, steeped with political history past and present [the two following volumes will be published towards the end of 2013]. Also about Walter Rodney and Maurice Bishop, many names of Vincentian families and some family history. Almost every word uttered by present politicians, with IMF notices and letters, copies of government contracts, lists of SVG government Bills and Bonds issued, in fact just about everything possible. Even the details of the unconstitutional and unenforceable teachers contract.

    I may also include a number of internet posts by people like and including you VincPowa.

    When politicians come along and try and alter history for political reasons, to try and gain the mind of people for
    political gain, that in my opinion is pure evil and should be exposed.

    Gonsalves was quite right when he said “If you had the International Criminal Court then, those fellows would have been dragged before the International Criminal Court,” That would also apply to many thousands of situations over the centuries, in every country in the world.

    I believe the reason that Gonsalves used that language was to create hate against the British, because he wants to get rid of the Queen and needs to poison the minds of the ignorant Vincentian people.

    He has planted the seed in the minds of Vincentians that they are Garifuna, they are not.

    I believe Gonsalves needs to rid us of the Queen so as he can get us further into ALBA, because that is what Chavez demands. Remember Chavez sent a message to the Queen asking her to give Vincentians their freedom.
    Chavez is wary if not frightened of the British Navy, as he very well should be. Chavez believes we can never have a proper revolution whilst we remain part of the Commonwealth or the British Queen.

    You will be ABLE to read all about ALBA, how we joined and what we agreed to.

    Posted by Peter | March 19, 2012, 11:09
  15. Gonsalves should know better than to say the Garifuna were the indigenous people of Saint
    Vincent, they were not. Without being disrespectful to any group. Garifunas were like a cuckoo bird, laying its eggs in someone else’s nest.

    We need to know when the African escapees stopped being Africans and started to be known as Garifuna. Remember not all this group of people bred with Caribs, escaped and/or ship wrecked slaves were not limited to men only, that’s why Garifuna look like Africans not Caribs.

    I accuse Gonsalves of using the Garifuna card, because it may give him more political support than playing the Carib card.

    In many cases the Gonsalves family spent more years in Saint Vincent than those called Garifuna.

    When I have a little more time I will show you how Gonsalves claims that indentured labour was equal to slavery is totally untrue and a fraud on the truth.

    Every lie that you utter Gonsalves is provable to be a lie.

    We can all agree that the treatment of the Garifuna was disgraceful, but so was the treatment of indigenous people of the Caribbean and South America’s and Africans, by the Portuguese over many centuries, perhaps amounting to millions of people’s death.

    Posted by Peter | March 19, 2012, 13:38
  16. “DUM DUM” PETER, the CARIBS were not the ORIGINAL INHABITANTS of St. Vincent…that would be the CIBONEYS then the ARAWAKS.

    See you around, BUB.

    Posted by vincypowa | March 20, 2012, 00:27
  17. Crap try VINCYPOWA, I acknowledge your admission to defeat by the use of BUB.

    Thanks for your admission that the Garifuna were not indigenous people as claimed by Gonsalves.

    Modern day historians believe that both groups Ciboney and Arowak were related. In fact there were other groups before them.

    The name Ciboney and Arowak are fairly modern names applied to these groups, I will not bother your simple uneducated mind with the scientific names.

    If a choice has to be made who are the indigenous inhabitants, one must of course say those who were there prior to the Africans and still existed when they arrived, and to a much lesser degree existed after they left.

    Please keep showing your ignorance, its quite amusing.

    Gonsalves speech was a politically loaded speech aimed at attacking the British. I have said before 10% untruth and 90% truth results in 100% lie. Of course VINCYPOWA as a MARXIST collaborator, you are a paid protector of the ULP and Gonsalves in particular against the truth which may damage them, wherever and whenever it occurs.

    Both you and Gonsalves have done extreme damage to the Garifuna, because you caused me to post all that I preferred left unsaid at this time.

    Now stop being a silly Billy, get back in your rocking chair on the porch, rock yourself to sleep and continue dreaming.

    I really find it difficult to understand how people like you can perpetuate lies day in and day out.

    Posted by Peter | March 20, 2012, 08:05
  18. DUM DUM, the GARIFUNAS are INDIGENOUS to SVG.

    They are a HYBRID people that are INDIGENOUS to St. Vincent and NOWHERE ELSE.

    You on the other hand said that the Caribs are the “original aboriginal population” of St. Vincent. Well, just as you have been WRONG on many other CLAIMS on this BLOG, U R WRONG on this one as well.

    Again, the “original aboriginal population” is NOT the so-called CARIBS. It was the so-called Ciboneys.

    The so-called Arawak followed then the Caribs. Therefore, the Caribs are THIRD in line in the settlement of St. Vincent

    When you look at the WHOLE PICTURE, the GARIFUNAS are the only INDIGENOUS GROUP of St. Vincent, because it is that LAND that gave BIRTH to the so-called “BLACK CARIBS.”

    In the case of the CARIBS and AWARAKS, they came from South America.

    In other words, they are INDIGENOUS to South America, not St. Vincent. However, they were the second and third groups that CAME and SETTLED in St. Vincent.

    So you see DUM DUM PETER, Dr. Gonsalves is CORRECT.

    By the way, I can BREAK it down further to make a DIFFERENT CASE, but I do not have a NEED to do so. Therefore, school is over.

    See you around BUB.

    Posted by vincypowa | March 20, 2012, 13:01
  19. VincyPowa you really are the most ignorant misinformed person that I have ever confronted. Your stupidity shows no bounds, and your pretence to show the reason that Garifunas are indigenous people of Saint Vincent is the hight of stupidity. These were a group of people that were added to year on year by different peoples from different parts of Africa, some of them born in slavery in Barbados and other islands. They were an evolving group of monochromatic miscegenation mixture of African, French settlers and the people they found on Saint Vincent at the time which the blanket name Charaibe was applied. I would not describe the Garifuna people as hybrid, I think that’s the wrong description. These people were more African than anything else, but in any case a mixture of tribes and bloodlines, some Carib and some European blood also mixed in there. Through the hundred or so years that this group of people were in SV, they were continually added to by more escaping slaves. Exactly how much Carib blood they carried will never be known. But you can be sure that today’s Garifuna are even further mixed up.
    A DNA test would be interesting to see what portion of them carry the type Carib gene.
    What you cannot say is a group of Africans came to Saint Vincent and cross bred with the Caribs and produced FI hybrids.

    The people the Africans found in Saint Vincent were a group originally from the Orinoco basin area [some few hundred years before, in about 1350 AD] an area what is now part of Venezuela. There were several thousand of these people living on Saint Vincent when the Africans began arriving. They preceded the so called Garifuna by about 400 years and were still there when the Garifuna were gone, but only around 200.

    I am not spending more time on this subject, which it is obvious you know nothing about, and like Gonsalves your master and overseer to whom you are eternally chained, you put forward a whole bundle of lies and unsubstantiated and unprovable claims. Which are a total load of crap and untruths, political rubbish to further you and your masters Marxist policy for Saint Vincent. Which includes changing history and fooling the ignorant followers of your Marxist scum brigade, in the quest for votes.

    I am sure that what you posted was written for you, because it was written to confuse, your brain is just not capable of figuring out such crap, being of fairly low mentality

    As for teaching me something, I have seen you use that phrase on numerous occasions in the past against many others, you obviously feel that you are capable of teaching someone something. I have seen the PROF in his postings reduce you to a trembling tripe jelly, with no where to go but under a stone.
    Unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately, you are such a twerp that the only thing anyone can learn from you is that you are an idiot, a liar, a deceiver and present a good reason not to support the ULP whilst people such as you influence it.

    Remember 90% truth 10% untruth results in 100% lie.

    Posted by Peter | March 21, 2012, 08:39
  20. I verily believe that Gonsalves knew all about what I wrote because he was informed of such by the late Dr. Kirby.
    I also believe Gonsalves ignored the advice of the most learned Dr. Earle Kirby and continued with his altering of history to gain votes and perhaps even to milk this group of people of some investment money in SVG.

    Of course the ceremony at Dorsetshire Hill also gives Gonsalves a stage on which to bash the British.

    Don’t forget Chavez demands our break away from the Queen and also the Common Wealth of Nations, because both these institutions are incompatible with ALBA membership. Also because of ALBA, a set of Marxists now control CARICOM, that is now being proposed becoming part of ALBA.

    WAKE UP AND SMELL THE SULPHUR.

    Posted by Peter | March 21, 2012, 09:06
  21. VINCYPOWA, when I wrote the following on

    “Is anyone aware that at the time of his death Joseph Chatoyer was a French citizen and had been appointed a General in the French Army. He spoke French fluently and his children were educated in Martinique. He also owned a number of African slaves that worked his plantation. He also sold captured runaway slaves from other islands, and traded or sold them to French farmers in Saint Vincent and also to the French from Martinique.
    Chatoyer had vast amounts of gold coinage and regularly visited other islands to buy goods. He was often seen wearing expensive French tailored suits and shoes.
    His brother Duvalle also kept and worked African slaves.
    This is all checkable from French Public Records.
    Gonsalves was aware of this when he made Chatoyer a National Hero, he was warned at the time by a politician and also a prominent Vincentian historian, not to do so. He chose to ignore these people, he was warned that this action could come back and bite him in the arse.
    The most important thing for Gonsalves was that Chatoyer fought the British, because Gonsalves hates the British.
    Won’t tell you any more, read the book to be published later this year from public records.
    I am very sorry to present this at this time to the Garifuna people, but I am sure it doesn’t come as a surprise to many of them, seeing as this information is readily available in written form, and has been for hundreds of years”s .

    VINCYPOWA, you replied: “Peter, what you’re FINDING out now has been in the public domain for decades”.
    If you knew about this, can you tell me why you support Chatoyer being a national hero of SVG?
    What is the reason you actually support a man with such a blemished history as a slave dealer, slave keeper and using slave workers on his plantation?

    Whilst your at it tell us why you support his brother Duvalle who had the same background.?

    Has anyone else got any comment to make on this matter?

    Posted by Peter | March 25, 2012, 11:50
  22. PETER, responded to your previous POSTINGS, but it seems like KENTON CHANCE decided against posting it, for whatever reason that only he knows.

    Posted by vincypowa | March 25, 2012, 23:09
  23. If your posting was offensive and racist, nothing new for you erhhhhh. You have been excluded on numerous sites for bad behaviour and language.

    Try again because I do not believe if your post was reasonable and without evil intent and foul words Mr Chance would stop your post. Probably your telling us lies again.

    Just simply answer the question my liar once lost.

    Posted by Peter | March 26, 2012, 21:03
  24. Peter, I do not ENGAGE in RACISM. I will LEAVE that PRACTICE to you.

    That said; let me TRY this one more time.

    Peter, you said that I am the most IGNORANT MISINFORMED person that you have ever CONFRONTED. Maybe you need to utter those words towards the MIRROR at the person that is LOOKING back at you.

    Are you forgetting how many times I had to CORRECT you on MATTERS regarding the TALIBAN, the WORLD TRADE CENTER, Bill Clinton, George W. Bush, Maurice Bishop, the proposed new constitution and so many others, which I cannot remember at this time?

    On this very issue, I had to CORRECT U, because you thought that the “original aboriginal population” was the so-called Caribs when in FACT, for example, the so-called ARAWAKS settled St. Vincent before the Caribs arrived on these shores.

    So again, it appears that you’re the most IGNORANT MISINFORMED PERSON that you have ever CONFRONTED. it MUST be HELL to be you, not so Peter?

    That said; it is obvious that your LIMITED OPINION on the GARIFUNA people is based on some abstract literature that you probably found on the Internet somewhere.

    If you want to be taken seriously, provide the evidence or source that led you to make this SILLY claim of yours, so I can make sense of it.

    Now, were there so-called runaway slaves from the other nearby islands that tried to make it to St. Vincent? I wouldn’t doubt it whatsoever, especially since these shores were the stronghold of the so-called BLACK and YELLOW Caribs.

    Moreover, it wouldn’t surprise me that since St. Vincent had a strong French present, a nation that was warring with the British, who so happened to have colonized Barbados, that slaves from that British colony, Barbados, risked their lives to make it here.

    Even if those two scenarios were factual, you still have to answer the question of how was it POSSIBLE that so-called “BLACK CARIBS” had TWO WARS with the empires that were trying to colonized St. Vincent.

    Moreover, how did these BLACK CARIBS became so POWERFUL and BOUNTIFUL in such a short space of time, if they were just slaves that escaped from neighboring islands?

    Again, your views are based on HIStory and not necessarily HISTORY, because there is documented evidence by Columbus that he saw BLACK PEOPLE when he was exploring the Caribbean.

    In other words, BLACK PEOPLE were in the region even before Columbus arrived. This means that BLACK PEOPLE were already PRESENT before SLAVES arrived in the Caribbean.

    I do not want to confuse your MIND further, so I will stop there on that issue so I can address whatever else you have to offer in your post.

    Peter, it is IRRELEVANT how much CARIB BLOOD is still there. What is IMPORTANT is that CARIB BLOOD is there. Once Carib BLOOD is there, you’re CONNECTED to that HYBRID group and to the so-called yellow Caribs as well.

    As for DNA, you can find out who has Carib blood from who doesn’t. More than likely, the DNA EVIDENCE will show that persons are connected to the Caribs or Garifunas through their maternal side…that would be an mtDNA test, and for obvious reasons.

    If you follow the story of the Caribs, they killed the ARAWAK males and took their women. That was usually the DOMINATE PRACTICE whenever two groups were fighting each other. The winner usually takes the women of the losing group into their camp.

    As for the rest of your TRIPE, it simply doesn’t make sense to address them, because they lend absolutely NOTHING more than SILLY talk to the discourse.

    See you around BUB.

    By the way, SPREAD LOVE NOT HATE

    Posted by vincypowa | March 26, 2012, 23:38
  25. Utter rubbish another one of your posts which contain numerous lies and twisted truth with some true fact. As I have said to you many times any article that contains lies makes the whole article a lie, because its written to deceive.

    On thing you have never been able to do is correct me, because time on time I have proven you a liar. Everyone knows you as a liar, I do not need to keep repeating it, but I do correct you and show you to be a serial liar and a deceiver of all decent people.

    I have never discussed the Taliban, the World Trade Centre, Bill Clinton, George W. Bush. We have discussed Maurice Bishop, that very dead Marxist Scum Bag. I have written a book and time-line [second book to be published this year] about Bishop based on public records that are in the public domain, both in Grenada and the US public record offices. You have in the past refuted what I wrote, which were in fact direct quotations from such records. You have done that to try and support Gonsalves who took a part in the Grenada revolution by writing speeches for Bishop and being a welcome visitor and friend to Bishop, riding in his car and attending meetings.

    As for all the other crap that you write about the Caribs, that again is to try and help Gonsalves in his quest to change the true history of the Garrifuna people.

    Perhaps you would like to tell me where I can find a document written by Columbus that states that he found black people, and where he found them in the Caribbean.

    I have also written a book and time-line based on public records and works of others from the 18th century, in several volumes the first of which will be published this year.

    You VINCYPOWA like your writings are just crap, designed to deceive decent people and perpepuate this Marxist scum regime that we have in Saint Vincent and the Grenadines.

    When I wrote the following, you agreed with what I wrote and said this information had been available for decades.

    “Is anyone aware that at the time of his death Joseph Chatoyer was a French citizen and had been appointed a General in the French Army. He spoke French fluently and his children were educated in Martinique. He also owned a number of African slaves that worked his plantation. He also sold captured runaway slaves from other islands, and traded or sold them to French farmers in Saint Vincent and also to the French from Martinique.
    Chatoyer had vast amounts of gold coinage and regularly visited other islands to buy goods. He was often seen wearing expensive French tailored suits and shoes.
    His brother Duvalle also kept and worked African slaves.
    This is all checkable from French Public Records.
    Gonsalves was aware of this when he made Chatoyer a National Hero, he was warned at the time by a politician and also a prominent Vincentian historian, not to do so. He chose to ignore these people, he was warned that this action could come back and bite him in the arse.
    The most important thing for Gonsalves was that Chatoyer fought the British, because Gonsalves hates the British.
    Won’t tell you any more, read the book to be published later this year from public records.
    I am very sorry to present this at this time to the Garifuna people, but I am sure it doesn’t come as a surprise to many of them, seeing as this information is readily available in written form, and has been for hundreds of years”s .

    VINCYPOWA, you replied:

    “Peter, what you’re FINDING out now has been in the public domain for decades”.
    If you knew about this, can you tell me why you support Chatoyer being a national hero of SVG?

    I then wrote:
    What is the reason you actually support a man with such a blemished history as a slave dealer, slave keeper and using slave workers on his plantation?

    Whilst your at it tell us why you support his brother Duvalle who had the same background.?

    I still await your reply, which in a previous post you claim you posted but Kenton Chance refused to publish it.

    QUIT THE LIES AND JUST ANSWER THE QUESTION O MIGHTY MOUSE

    Posted by Peter | March 27, 2012, 07:49
  26. BUBbbbbbbbbbbbbb

    Posted by Peter | March 27, 2012, 07:53
  27. What you can be sure of, that Columbus would know if he saw an African or a negro, he was a slave trader at some time prior to his trips to the Caribbean and the America’s. He would certainly of mentioned it in his logs and writings if he had seen a black African.
    During his trips to the Caribbean he kept logs about every country and island that he visited.

    I have checked all the English translations of those logs and records, no where does he mention black people being found in any location that he visited. Columbus did carry some black crew, some of whom he abandoned on islands, he treated his black crew with abysmal cruelty.

    The first written reference to blacks in the Caribbean and Americas came from an Africa playwright Gaoussou Diawara, he wrote a book “The Saga of Abubakari II”. Diawara describes an African monarch who abdicated his throne in 1311 and set off to discover
    whether the Atlantic Ocean, like the vast River Niger, “had another bank.” “Abubakari in the book left with 2000 Boats, in 1312 Abubakari II, ruled over a vast West African empire including modern-day Mali, the book claims Abubakari landed at Recife, on the coast of Brazil.

    There is absolutely no evidence regarding these claims, nothing has ever been substantiated, they are little more than fairy tails. It is a story adopted by Caribbean politicians seeking to fool their citizens into believing they have been in the Caribbean and Americas since the 1300‘s. This leads people to believe that the blacks and Africans came to the Caribbean as free men, and lets the Spanish and Portuguese off the hook regarding slavery.

    More fraud, more lies, more crap from the Marxist scum brigade in the Caribbean.

    Like your writings VincyPowa they are just fairy tails.

    Do you remember this?
    The Portuguese sea captain Antonio Gonsalves took 8 Africans into slavery from the South West African Sahara coast. He was part of the Gonsalves of Madeira family.
    Also a member of the Gonsalves family of Madeira by marriage was Christopher Columbus, who was responsible for the deaths of millions of Caribbean and American indigenous Indians. And thereafter the shipping of African slaves to the Caribbean and Americas.

    1418 -Madeira Portugal:
    This was the beginning of the Portuguese slave trading era that much later affected Saint Vincent and changed the World. The official history of the Portuguese Island of Madeira and the following Caribbean slave trade starts with the discovery of the island of Porto Santo by João Gonçalves (John Gonsalves) a Jew (1392-1460). Also called O Zarco “the cross-eyed” and his fellow officers Bartolomeu Perestrelo and Tristão Vaz Teixeira in 1418. The next year they settled Madeira island which was just 38 kilometres (23 miles) away from Porto Santo.

    The Portuguese claimed the island of Madeira.

    John Gonsalves (João Gonçalves ) discovers Madeira.
    As a reward for this Prince Henry nominated him the first donee captain of Funchal. On Madeira, he named a certain area “Câmara de Lobos” due to a number of sea lions found in a cave there.
    (Note: In Portuguese, sea lion is lobo marinho, which translates literally as sea wolf.)
    [Gonsalves see also p3 1441, p4 1442, p5 1444, p5 1450, p6 1499]

    In 1441: Off the West African coast, an occurrence that later affected the World this was the year that the international slave trade began with Prince Henry the Navigator of Portugal, when his sea captain Antão Gonçalves (written as Gonçalves but pronounced Gonsalves [Antonio or Anthony Gonsalves], in this recorded historical fact Antão can be found both as Gonsalves and Gonçalves, variations in the name due to anglicizing etc. Search the internet under either spelling with the same results. Gonsalves is a recent phonetic spelling of the name Gonçalves, historically there was no such spelling as Gonsalves) kidnapped ten Africans as slaves and delivered them to Prince Henrique (Henry) who gave them to the Pope as gifts.

    Antão Gonçalves (Antonio or Anthony Gonsalves), intending to acquire a cargo of animal skins and oil to sell in Europe, landed on the shores of West Africa. The ten Africans he abducted were almost an afterthought. Whilst trading glass beaded necklaces for skins with the Africans, he beckoned to them and said “vindo ao papa” (come to Papa), when they approached they were overpowered and manacled and taken aboard his ship. When he returned to Portugal, Gonsalves delivered the captives to Prince Henry, who in turn presented them as a gift to the Catholic Pope, then as much a powerful political figure as religious leader. The gesture so pleased the Catholic pontiff that he granted Prince Henry licence to a broad chunk of West African territory for slave taking. Hence the start of the African/European commercial slave trade. For some time thereafter, the Portuguese dominated the African/European slave trade with the continent of Africa and the peddling of its inhabitants. Long a part of history throughout much of the world, the practice often enslaving others now entered a new era, the so-called “Commercial Age.” Thousands of Africans during this period were herded into cramped, unsanitary quarters and shipped across the Atlantic Ocean for sale. Within two decades of Antão Gonsalves’ voyage, the African slave trade had become a highly profitable venture for the Portuguese.

    Antão Gonçalves (Anthony Gonsalves) a Portuguese captain a son of João Gonçalves (John Gonsalves), abducted ten Africans at Rio do Ouro on the West African coast. Antão Gonçalves (Portugal, dates unknown) 1441: Travels to Rio de Oro and brings the first cargo of African slaves to Portugal. In 1443, 1445, 1447, Anthony Gonsalves makes three more voyages to Rio de Oro.

    The first shipment of African slaves were sent directly from Africa to Portugal. With the complicity and blessings of the Catholic Church the Portuguese would come to dominate the African gold, spice and slave trade for almost a century before other European nations became greatly involved.

    Portugal: The Gonsalves (Gonçalves) family were Marranos [secret Jews because of Jewish persecution by the Catholic church] they played a leading role in introducing sugar cane cultivation to the Atlantic islands of Madeira.

    The start of the African slave trade as known in the Caribbean and Americas.
    Later that year Portuguese captains Antão Gonçalves and Nuno Tristão capture 12 Africans in Cabo Branco (modern Mauritania) and take them to Portugal as slaves. Portuguese sailors entered the international slave trade, with African negroes at Cape Blanc.
    African slaves were sold in the market at Lisbon, the slaves were taken to the market place and openly sold in the market at Lisbon.

    The Arabs Moors had delt in Africa slaves for many centuries and possibly thousands of years. They also traded in white slaves, which is often forgotten, this white trade was at one period as big or even greater than the African slave practice.

    Posted by Peter | March 27, 2012, 15:17
  28. PETER, to question why Chatoyer is our FIRST NATIONAL HERO, and to object to Duvalle being up for selection for similar status, means that you do not UNDERSTAND nor APPRECIATE the IMPORTANCE of DEFENDING the SOVEREIGNTY of this BLESSED NATION against IMPERIAL POWERS.

    Again, what is the purpose for bringing up Antão Gonçalves in this discussion?

    I have asked you that question in several different ways and it seems like you cannot give an answer. Hopefully this time around we will get a DIRECT answer from you.

    See you around BUB.

    Posted by VINCY POWA (@VINCYPOWA) | March 28, 2012, 11:11
  29. Thank you VINCYPOWA, you told me you were aware for a very long time about the things that I wrote about Chatoyer and Duvalle, two brothers who were French Citizens and officers in the French Army.

    They in taking the position with the French in fact sold out the islands sovereignty by adopting the French over the British.

    They both kept Africans as slaves.

    Chatoyer signed an agreement with the British that sold out our sovereignty and then reneged on the agreement and supported the French.

    Now tell me why you still support these men in being National Hero’s.

    Forget all your prattle crap, wriggling and writhing, trying to defeat the truth.

    Answer the question.

    People read all the posts to this article.

    Posted by Peter | March 28, 2012, 21:41
  30. Ok, let me try this again.

    Peter, you should be the last person calling someone a liar.

    You are the same person who claimed that if the then proposed new constitution was not defeated it would have led to SVG becoming a COMMUNIST STATE with Dr. Ralph Gonsalves as the DICTATOR. When PRESSED to PROVIDE the EVIDENCE in the PROPOSED new constitution to SUBSTANTIATE your CLAIM, all I got was more MINDLESS YAP coming from your FINGERTIPS.

    That said; you and the Nutty Professor are so blatantly dishonest, at times, I think you and him are one and the same, so I may have attributed correcting him on the Taliban, the bombing of the World Trade Center in 1993, 9/11, Bill Clinton and George W. Bush and so many others to you.

    Irrespective of that fact, I have corrected you too many times to count as well. For example, even in this thread, you stated that the Caribs are the “original aboriginal population” of St. Vincent. This is FALSE, as I have already POINTED out to you, because they came and MET the ARAWAKS settled on this blessed land. Therefore, they could not have been the “original aboriginal population” of St. Vincent.

    However, of course, instead of ADMITTING that you are WRONG, you brought all kind of SILLINESS into the equation in an attempt to muddy the water.

    That said; the NATIVES told Christopher Columbus, on his second voyage to the so-called New World, that they were TRADING with Africans before he arrived in the region.

    I do not have the exact quote from his log, but I do have an excerpt from an article called “Before Columbus: Black Explorers of the New World,” written by Legrand Clegg which stated, “The best evidence of the Black presence in America before Columbus comes from the pen of the ‘great discover’ himself. In his journal of the second voyage, Columbus reported that when he reached Haiti, the native Americans told him that Black-skinned people had come from the south and southeast in boats, trading in gold-tipped medal spears. At least a dozen other European explorers, including Vasco Nunez de Balboa, also reported seeing or hearing of ‘Negroes’ when they reached the New World.”

    That said; I agreed there are information in the public domain making reference to what you’ve quoted. However, you nor I do not know how ACCURATE the INFORMATION is. Moreover, let us say that the French info was100% accurate, so what?

    The FACT still REMAINS that Chatoyer fought two wars against the ENEMY of his PEOPLE. An ENEMY that wanted to take over a nation at the EXPENSE of its SOVEREIGNTY and INHABITANTS, and so the natives had to conspire with the LESSER of the TWO EVILS in their quest to maintain SOVEREIGNTY over their LAND.

    We know what happened. When Chatoyer and the other GARIFUNA WARRIORS needed their suspected ally, the French, the most, they abandoned them. We know what happened next. The BRITISH, the COLONIZER and SLAVE MASTER of of this BLESSED LAND, eventually defeated the Garifunas. They then gave the Chatoyer’s warriors an ultimatum and so they had no choice but to give in to being exiled from this land.

    So to disprove of Chatoyer’s ascendance to NATION HERO STATUS of this BLESSED NATION has to come from someone still SUFFERING from a COLONIAL STATE of MIND. Moreover, as I said, Duvalle should be rewarded such status as well.

    Posted by vincypowa | March 29, 2012, 09:01
  31. Choosing the French over the British, reneging on the signed agreement with the British caused the death of hundreds if not thousands of Garifuna. The actions of Chatoyer directly caused the death of thousands.

    Chatoyer should never of sold out to the French or the British, because that’s exactly what he did. He sold out to both and then reneged on the one who he felt would lose a battle.

    How on earth can you consider these brothers as National Hero’s, any more than in the future Gonsalves can ever be considered as such.

    History is already written on a daily basis regarding Gonsalves, isn’t it just great, this technological age.

    Well all you Gonsalves protectionist’s get to work on this, lets have your best spin and lies.

    Posted by Peter | March 29, 2012, 09:30
  32. PETER, are you FORGETTING that the BRITISH were TAKING MORE and MORE LANDS which went COUNTER to the DEAL they had NEGOTIATED with CHATOYER and the GARIFUNA NATION?

    The BRITISH PRACTICALLY PUSHED CHATOYER and his PEOPLE FURTHER into the INTERIOR. Therefore, it was the BRITISH who RENEGED on the TREATY.

    LOOK, it is OBVIOUS that you DO NOT KNOW what you’re TALKING about, so allow me to HELP you out since you seem to have a PROBLEM EXPRESSING FACTS.

    Posted by vincypowa | March 29, 2012, 10:56
  33. VINCYPOWA, the book is out this year, you will be able to read about every allotment of land and property, the date and from whom to whom. Private disposals, deals between French farmers and British, grants and allotments by the British Crown. Every action regarding lands is listed and recorded.
    Its all there written from proper records, so quit your bullcrap.

    You just can’t abandon your lies.

    Tell the people how you can adjudge these people as National Hero’s, they are not.

    Posted by Peter | March 29, 2012, 13:31
  34. PETER, I stated a FACT and which has been CONFIRMED by the SPEECH by the PRIME MINISTER of St. Vincent and the Grenadines, Dr. Ralph Gonsalves.

    You on the other hand is just PRATTLING SILLINESS.

    Posted by vincypowa | March 29, 2012, 17:07
  35. Are you suggesting that I read or listen to a speech by Gonsalves and believe anything that he says, he is a known and self admitted liar, and a big one at that.

    We all know that besides telling lies he also signs agreements that are unconstitutional and unenforceable.

    Like you VINCYPOWA the liar, you see when you repeat his lies, its like being a receiver of stolen property, it makes you as bad, if not worse than the thief. Remember Gonsalves said “SHOW ME A LIAR AND I WILL SHOW YOU A THIEF”, yes he actually said that, wasn’t it good of him to confirm the link.

    When I was eating a wonderful breakfast in my hotel room, I got to thinking about dogs. You know some dogs piss on furniture and people, they leave the property and go shagging bitches on heat, they try and shag the cat, they roll in goat and pig shit, well the answer to that kind of behaviour is castration.

    Here is the brilliant part. When the recently arrested Gonsalves the ambassador, and his father piggy Gonsalves the $20 fertilizer man, and Slater the no rater, when they go to Cuba for the Poodle brain transplant, why not castrate them at the same time. Now isn’t that an absolutely brilliant idea, no more 4 am wanderings, no pissing all over the New York police.

    And as an afterthought VINCYPOWA, if you ask massa nice he will take you to Cuba as well, the operation is cheap and you can all pay in US dollars.

    Posted by Peter | March 30, 2012, 10:58

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